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When we have an incorrect understanding of one aspect of the gospel, it can prevent us from correctly understanding other aspects of the gospel. We need to correct our initial misunderstandings before we can successfully move forward. The scriptures talk about our bodies being restored, and our bodies being resurrected, and we incorrectly assume those are the same thing. In this episode, we focus in on what the prophets mean when they talk about this restoration, and begin to explain the impact that has on the plan of salvation as we know it.
Ezekiel 37:1-28
2 Nephi 10:2, 7
Alma 11:43-45
Alma 12:20
Alma 40:22-24
Alma 41:1-4, 10-14
D&C 76:72-74
D&C 43:30-32
D&C 63:50-52
D&C 128:12-13
D&C 101:29-31
3 Nephi 28:8
1 Nephi 15:19:20
2 Nephi 30:7-8
D&C 45:17
Thanks for the thought provoking episode. I too have been pondering this topic for awhile, and have a couple thoughts I’ll share. First, it seems like there are only two states like you say, and the terrestrial glory seems to be the restoration, which is an intermediary state, where people will get a second chance (or a first chance for those who never heard the gospel in the flesh) to live the gospel in the fullness. The choice they make once they are in the flesh again will then finally decide whether they are on Christ’s right hand or left hand, and whether they enter heaven (celestial kingdom) or hell (telestial kingdom).
So it seems that as always Satan has done a good job confusing people through false religions as a second life on the earth seems on the surface to be reincarnation. However, reincarnation can be overcome without Christ and thus is a false doctrine. If we look at Christ’s atonement it is through Him that all will be raised from the dead, thus, even though this restoration in the flesh appears to be reincarnation on the surface, if we look deeper, it is completely different and only through Christ that it is possible since He broke the bands of death for all of us. And as you added the mercy of the Father allows us to have another chance to live in Zion if we will only follow Him at last.
Finally, I had a thought while you were talking. I always wondered why Christ tells Mary in John 20:17 “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” Perhaps he had been raised in the flesh and was preparing for His twinkling which he refers to as ascending to the Father? Just an interesting thought I had. Also Jesus taught that we must be born again to inherit the kingdom of God. Perhaps not only is this a symbolic birth through water, fire, and blood, but an actual physical birth back into the flesh? Anyways thanks again for the fascinating discussion.
Paul, I thought I would add an additional consideration in regards to your last paragraph. King James: John 20:17 – “Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME not; for I have not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God.” Compare that to the JST of this same verse: “Jesus saith unto her, HOLD me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father……” I love this translation because it offers an affectionate dimension to their relationship rather than the words, “Touch me Not”.
Interesting point I forgot to check if there was a JST. The JST is an amazing resource.
This episode has a lot to digest. Would either MD or Searcher like to chime in with how they imagine the “first resurrection”, or “restoration” actually takes place? Do you think the description of dry bones is more literal, in which people will somehow be formed from the existing elements independent of the normal family process, or figurative, where it may refer to a new birth after the time when Satan is bound?
Also, do you think the “servants” who are prophesied to return are in a different category of returnees?
Another chapter that overlaps the time we are discussing (pre-millennial to final judgment and burning) is Jacob 5. My take on this chapter is that the events leading to the cleansing of the vineyard are incremental, where the bad is cut off to the extent that the good is growing. I would imagine that a mass resurrection event would be more consistent with some kind of global catastrophe (not described in Jacob 5) and an incremental cleansing might have people born/resurrected into the millennium, coexisting with people who are still subject to death and a subsequent “first” resurrection.
I hope you understand what I am asking you to speculate on. I found this podcast incredibly thought-provoking and am still working to put all the information together in my own thoughts. Great job!
The scriptures don’t give any details on the “restoration” process. Alma declares that we will be restored as we are now, so I don’t think that means we are going back to being babies (but babies that died as babies would be restored as babies). Ezekiel’s description of the muscle and sinew coming back onto the bones would look really cool, but I suspect that was figurative imagery rather than literal process. I don’t know the “how”.
Our next few episodes are going to build off this and address some of your other questions, so hang tight.
It might be that one reason why there are multiple descriptions is that at some point, those who go to the Celestial Kingdom would be getting a celestial body. It would appear there are some differences in our current bodies and the original creation. Adam was created in the image of the Only Begotten. He then had a part of him removed and Eve was formed from that. It’s possible, and there are different interpretations of what is meant by Adam’s rib, that the process described there is altering the celestial form.
So, it would seem there is a restoration where our current bodies are brought back to life. Then there may be another process where the judgement occurs and our bodies are converted to match the glory in which they are determined to dwell.
I recently came across this Apocryphal book “The First Book of Adam and Eve”. I am not sure as yet of the validity of it, however, here are some interesting verses to contemplate about a possible truth of baptism.
(Chapter 1:
2 And to the north of the garden there is a sea of water, clear and pure to the taste, like unto nothing else; so that, through the clearness thereof, one may look into the depths of the earth.
3 And when a man washes himself in it, becomes clean of the cleanness thereof, and white of its whiteness–even if he were dark.
4 And God created that sea of His own good pleasure, for He knew what would come of the man He should make; so that after he had left the garden, on account of his transgression, men should be born in the earth, from among whom righteous ones should die, whose souls God would raise at the last day; when they should return to their flesh; should bathe in the water of that sea, and all of them repent of their sins.
5 But when God made Adam go out of the garden, He did not place him on the border of it northward, lest he should draw near to the sea of water, and he and Eve wash themselves in it, be cleansed from their sins, forget the transgression they had committed, and be no longer reminded of it in the thought of their punishment.)
If true, these verses clearly indicate that a final baptism will occur after the physical restoration, for the righteous, in this specific sea of water within the Garden of Eden.
“I’ve never heard a scripture the describes a Celestial body as being ‘in the flesh'”.
I just discovered your podcast. I thought I would do this exercise you left for the listener.
D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones–
D&C 129:2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
D&C 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Mos 3:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. At what point do Adam and Eve become “one flesh”?
D&C 129 and 130 do not meet the scriptural criteria for scripture: they were not revelations, they were not written by Joseph, reviewed by him, nor presented as canon. And most importantly, they contradict many other scriptures and violate the law of witnesses.
Of course God knew that the language would evolve. That’s what languages do. It is vital to understand the correct meaning of each word. In addition to the 1828 dictionary, may I also suggest Strong’s online concordance to get the original meaning of Greek and Hebrew words., You can access it through the Blue Letter Bible, or BibleHub.com. You can use this dictionary for the Bible, and for all the other standard works, since they were revealed using the language of the Bible, you can use them using a Biblical dictionary.
I like your analysis of the scriptures. However, you should also look at D&C 88:26-32, and incorporate that into your views of the resurrection.
I noticed something in D&C 43
32 And he that LIVETH in righteousness shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and the earth shall pass away so as by fire.
Liveth would be a future tense right? Those at the last day who are living righteously.
The righteous that are alive and living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, whether they were alive already or restored/raised from the dead and chose to live righteously from that point.
Sorry, one more thing I just remembered.
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
The greek word where restitution is used can also be translated as restoration which might link it to Alma 40.