The Iron Rod Podcast
The Iron Rod Podcast
Iron Rod 099 - 4 Nephi - Mormon 6

We cover four hundred years of history in one episode, beginning with the establishment of Zion after the visit of Jesus and ending with the destruction of the Nephite nation.

Romans 6:22

D&C 84:49-53, 40-41

JST Hebrews 6:4-6

Alma 36:24

1 Nephi 10:17

D&C 45:67

3 Nephi 3:21

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10 comments on “Iron Rod 099 – 4 Nephi – Mormon 6

  1. Who will survive the coming destruction and live in Zion? Isaiah 33 say: 14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

    15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

    Malachi 3 talks about the same thing and is quoted multiple times including by Christ to the Nephites. We always just remember the tithing part but right before that it says: 5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger, and fear not me, saith the Lord of Hosts.

    6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of Hosts. But ye say: Wherein shall we return?

    Section 78 says: 3 For verily I say unto you, the time has come, and is now at hand; and behold, and lo, it must needs be that there be an organization of my people, in regulating and establishing the affairs of the storehouse for the poor of my people, both in this place and in the land of Zion—

    4 For a permanent and everlasting establishment and order unto my church, to advance the cause, which ye have espoused, to the salvation of man, and to the glory of your Father who is in heaven;

    5 That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things.

    6 For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things;

    7 For if you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you.

    I think these are key verses we forget, but that are essential to understand as Zion is about to be reestablished. If we have been given the financial means to have more than enough, and have free time then we better be using that free time to treasure up the word of God, and be prepared to use of our substance to bring the poor to Zion. It is not ours but God blessed us with it that we would be in a position to be instruments in His hands in preparing the way for Zion. And we better be ready to give it all up to help others or we will be cut off. Where much is given much is required. This really is one of the many reasons the church has such little success in the world today. I realized this as a missionary. Many people were so poor that they literally worked all day long came home ate what little they had and went to bed to get up early to go to work all day again. How do they have time to investigate some religion? Or develop spiritually at all when they are slaves to the corrupt economic system?

  2. msalkema Oct 25, 2020

    In your podcast you state (referring to the Book of Mormon) that, “God has told us multiple times ‘it contains the fullness of the gospel’”. Can you point to me where that is stated multiple times?

    • D&C 27:5 …Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel
      D&C 42:12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.
      D&C 124:119-120 tells us anything more or less than what is contained in the Book of Mormon and the revelations comes of evil, which implies that the fulness (everything you need to know) is contained therein.

      • msalkema Oct 26, 2020

        What about the scripture from the actual BoM that states that it only “much” of the gospel? You are choosing from the D&C. If you claim the BoM is the fullness shouldn’t you be choosing scripture from the book that has the fulness rather than from another source?

        1 Nephi 13:34;
        And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying: Behold, saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remnant of the house of Israel—and this remnant of whom I speak is the seed of thy father—wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb—I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in my own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb.

        • Let’s be careful with our words. The BoM contains the fullness of the gospel, it is not the fullness itself. It teaches in plainness that in order to be saved we must have faith, repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. Jesus taught this in 3 Nephi 11 and said anything more or less comes of evil. The BoM, D&C, and Bible all teach that simple gospel, and from them we can learn the fullness of the gospel.

          As for the importance of the D&C, the Lord tells us in D&C 1:17 that God “called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jr., and spoke unto him from heaven and give him commandments, and also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world.” Then in D&C 1:24 he states that “these commandments are of me and were given unto my servants…that they might come to understanding.” He then commands in D&C 1:37 that we “search these commandments, for they are true and faithful.” I’m not sure why you would want to assign a lesser status to the Doctrine and Covenants than to the Book of Mormon.

          Now let’s focus on 1 Nephi 13. Unlike the statements in D&C that I shared, this verse does not explicitly call out the Book of Mormon. Your interpretation requires a number of assumptions, and I’m not sure those assumptions are correct.

          After God has smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles – when did this happen? The SLC church teaches that it happened in the 16th and 17th centuries when Spanish conquistadors pillaged Latin America. However Joseph never taught that the remnant of Lehi were in Central or South America, he always identified them with the North American Indian tribes. Those Indian tribes were not bothered by the Spanish, but they were scattered in the 1830s-1880s by the US Government, after our current Book of Mormon was published.

          After the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church – The SLC church teaches that this was the Catholic church, however, the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible reveals no major changes to the gospel of Jesus Christ (faith, repentance, baptism, holy ghost). The SLC church argues that non-scriptural things like temple ordinances and the teaching that God was once a man is what was removed…but those don’t appear in the Book of Mormon either. An alternate interpretation is that the Gentiles received the fullness in 1831 and by 1834 had rejected the fullness. Brigham Young embraced polygamy and made it doctrine required to go to heaven, redefined God as a man, taught that Adam was our God, and created many other non-scriptural doctrines. By 1921, the SLC church felt it necessary to remove the doctrine (Lectures on Faith) from the Doctrine and Covenants, because those plain and precious teachings of the doctrine of Christ contradicted the teachings of Brigham.

          I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them…much of my gospel – If the remnant of Lehi wasn’t smitten and scattered until after 1830, and the Gentiles stumbled after 1830, then the day in which God brings forth much of his gospel can’t be in 1829, but must be in the future, which means it isn’t the current Book of Mormon we have.

          The assumptions we make can dramatically change the interpretation of 1 Nephi 13:34. The statements in the Doctrine and Covenants are plain, clear, and unequivocal.

  3. msalkema Oct 25, 2020

    After further searching I found 1 Nephi 13:34;
    And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying: Behold, saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remnant of the house of Israel—and this remnant of whom I speak is the seed of thy father—wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb—I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in my own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb.
    It says “much” of the gospel not fullness.

    I know that 1 Nephi 10:14 says:
    And after the house of Israel should be scattered they should be gathered together again; or, in fine, after the Gentiles had received the fulness of the Gospel, the natural branches of the olive tree, or the remnants of the house of Israel, should be grafted in, or come to the knowledge of the true Messiah, their Lord and their Redeemer.
    Here it says “fulness” but seems to imply to me at some future time.

    Perhaps the fullness is combination of the D&C and the BoM. Or perhaps the fullness is in the sealed portion of the BoM.

    • Ranae Oct 26, 2020

      What if the reference to fullness means the description of Zion? One thing the Book of Mormon contains that is absent from the Bible is a description of a people who actually live in a Zion society. What did they know and do to get there and what made it fall apart? Building Zion seems to be the fullness of living the gospel on earth – to bring to pass a point where we can say “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”. The Book of Mormon also explicitly states that America is the place for Zion to be built in the last days.

      Joseph Smith seems to have understood this. He was getting instructions of how to organize, but the hearts of most people were not ready for the change and they started speculating about making a profit from the gathering place from all the people who would be coming to the area among other things. Many of the changes made in the JST were related to the importance of caring for the poor, as well as some clarification about the wrongness of polygamy. Just like the ancient Israelites who were led to the promised land, the early saints got to the edge of the promise and had to turn back and wait for another generation to realize the promises.

      • That’s an interesting theory, but I’m not aware of any scriptures linking the description of Zion to the fullness. Are you? There really isn’t a description of how they implemented Zion in the BoM. In fact, I’d argue the Bible contains more details on how to live the law of consecration (Acts 2:43-47, 4:32-35).

        A more likely answer about the fullness being in the Book of Mormon consists of the instructions on how to administer the sacrament, including the prayers, as well as instructions in Moroni on how to give the Holy Ghost, how to ordain priests and teachers, how to baptize, and how to run meetings. Those are all things that mainstream Christianity is in disagreement about because the Bible doesn’t give explicit instructions. The Bible and Book of Mormon both teach the importance, but only the Book of Mormon give the details on how to implement the gospel. Oliver used those instructions in the Book of Mormon to create the Articles of the Church of Christ in June 1829.

        • Ranae Oct 27, 2020

          I don’t know about any scriptures linking fullness with Zion, I just looked up the definition of fullness in Webster’s 1828 and the effect of the Book of Mormon on me personally.

          Here are the first three definitions:
          1. The state of being filled, so as to leave no part vacant.
          2. The state of abounding or being in great plenty; abundance.
          3. Completeness; the state of a thing in which nothing is wanted; perfection.

          Wouldn’t you say that these descriptions fit the relationship between the gospel and Zion? If the gospel is lived in its fullness, we will have Zion. People who try to create a Zion society without the true gospel end up with some kind of dystopian society which leads to greater loss of freedom/agency as well as great poverty for many people. The Book of Mormon alone cannot create Zion, but it can prepare us for it as our hearts are changed by the things we learn and live, such as the teachings of King Benjamin. Obviously Christ’s teachings are also included in the Bible, but the Gentile church was never directly taught by the Savior nor did they have a civilization where all people were part of the covenant community. They were persecuted minorities. The Book of Mormon shows what is possible when the people are ready to live as saints. At that point they can be taught more fully.

          I grew up reading from the Book of Mormon, and it left me with a firm desire to live in Zion someday. I knew it was possible because it had happened before. The JST gave us 2 other witnesses of the possibility through additional info about Enoch and Melchizedek. All three societies were initially wicked, but through the teaching of men who had obtained a calling and were after the order of the Son of God, their people repented and were brought to the fullness of what the gospel had to offer. I think the instructions about specific prayers and ordinations are helpful, but in my opinion they are a means to an end, not the end itself.

  4. This is something that has recently occurred to me.

    As the phrase, yoke of bondage in 109:63, while it should still apply to the yoke of sin. I began starting to wonder if the people with a literal yoke of bondage at the time of the revelatory prayer are in fact of the house of David.

    Listening to the previous week episode triggered my mind, when it was again opinionated that the servants might appear differently in the near future. Of course maybe in sneakers and jeans was already thought upon. But then as I was making my usual rounds through Isaiah. It then occurred to me that what I thought was metaphorical might also be in a literal sense.

    7 For the Lord God will help me, therefore shall I not be confounded. Therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
    8 And the Lord is near, and he justifieth me. Who will contend with me? Let us stand together. Who is mine adversary? Let him come near me, and I will smite him with the strength of my mouth.
    (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 7:7 – 8)

    The keyword being flint, of course the metaphoric usage is obvious. But then again flint is a certain color. And in that context, we actually get a peculiar verse in the Book of Mormon, one of the reasons it is claimed to be a racist book.

    21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
    22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
    (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 5:21 – 22)

    It is interesting to note that the very word flint was used here. The Lord darkened their skin because of their black heart. Which of course caused me to reconsidered the passage about the marred servant. I know there are expectations of the servants immediately establishing Zion, but I have wondered if the Lord would do a small test before then. By that I mean, sending the marred servant before he is fully healed. Because the intercessory scriptures seem to me to portray the servant still chastised after the martyrdom.

    And so it has made me curious in the fact we know, that when the Lord appeared to Moses upon the mount in the bush. The Lord caused Moses’ hand to become leprous white. And so we know by modern revelation via a patriarchal blessing, that Joseph the one like Moses will also witness the Lord upon the mount in the bush. And so the idea is, that Joseph could actually appear unto the people with a skin of blackness, in the likeness of the Lamanite curse. To show unto the people that the God of Moses is the God of the broken off branch of Israel. To which Joseph not being white and fair looking, would actually require him to be in need of healing, since he is marred by the same curse of the Lamanites. And still able to fulfill the promise of not being hurt.

    Which is also a sign to the wicked white people because of the obscure pronouncement of skin cursing that Mormon seems to make mention of. While it might seem to be talking about the remnant of Lehi, but what other people do we know that the Spirit of the Lord had ceased striving with their fathers, who were a “delightsome” people, Christ for their shepherd, and even led by God the Father, and of course led about by Satan, or as the Book of Commandments stated, delivered up unto Satan. That seems awfully familiar to a certain heritage. It is possible that those who reject God, who might appear white right now, might become a dark, filthy and a loathsome people, beyond the description of the Nephites and Lamanites, when they reject the goodly things to come.

    15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.
    16 For behold, the Spirit of the Lord hath already ceased to strive with their fathers; and they are without Christ and God in the world; and they are driven about as chaff before the wind.
    17 They were once a delightsome people, and they had Christ for their shepherd; yea, they were led even by God the Father.
    18 But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.
    (Book of Mormon | Mormon 5:15 – 18)

    And so what if Joseph returns from the bush, with the skin of blackness. He obviously would be like Moses, but marred according to his visage and form, until the Lord decides to heal him. Possibly fulfilling, because remember Mormon uses the word filthy…

    1 AND he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
    2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
    3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
    4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
    (Old Testament | Zechariah 3:1 – 4)

    Is a brand of fire not black? Maybe one of the reasons the kings and rulers of the world are astonied, because they might be racist towards the one like Moses, who was actually a white male with Nordic features. Who by the same curse was actually able to rally the descendants of the Lamanites, and the descendants of those from the yoke of bondage to support the cause of gathering unto Zion and restoring the house of Israel.

    So yeah, I guess you never know how the servants might appear.