The Iron Rod Podcast
The Iron Rod Podcast
Iron Rod 098 - 3 Nephi 22-30

We wrap up the book of 3 Nephi, including the Three Nephites, the name of the church, and a warning to the Gentiles.

D&C 45:58-59

D&C 13

D&C 124:38

Hebrews 7:5

D&C 101:2

D&C 60:3

D&C 64:38

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5 comments on “Iron Rod 098 – 3 Nephi 22-30

  1. Ranae Oct 18, 2020

    The topic of consecration has come up on this podcast series more than once as something we are collectively waiting for in order to signal the true church is once again on the earth. (Forgive me if I paraphrased poorly, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong about what I think you are saying.)

    The scriptures seem very clear that care of the poor is intrinsic to God’s work on the earth. I am just wondering whether or not part of our condemnation is that we have substituted the individual responsibility to care for the poor to a system where tithes and offerings from the members are funneled to the corporate church to “build up the kingdom of God” with the result that there is not longer personal surplus nor personal responsibility, and the poor are left by the wayside. (The same applies to saying “I paid my taxes, there is a government program to do that.”) Will God hold us guiltless for paying our tithing with the full knowledge that the tithing is not going to its intended purpose? Or should we be actively engaged in seeking and supporting the causes that do what the church and government are not doing?

    Looking outside the model I grew up with to the world of social media, I have found both needs and opportunities to give. There are many communities that “ask and receive” on an as-needed basis. Here are a few examples: This organization feeds severely malnourished children with the hope of preventing permanent damage to bodies and minds during crucial early development. This organization fills small, immediate needs of individual veterans one request at a time. I have seen twitter notices of crucial requests for very small amounts to prevent eviction, pay overdue bills, provide housing for families with young children. The ultimate goal seems to be to let the veterans know they are supported, while they do the hard work of putting their lives back together after the trauma of war. Ultimately, a very small donation can be the difference between life and death for some. Operation Underground Railroad is involved with the rescue of people from human trafficking.

    This list is not an endorsement of these organizations, but simply a small sample of the work that people are organizing to do that to me seems consistent with the “fullness of the gospel”. One nice thing I have seen is the financial transparency that lets donors know how much of their donation is actually going to the stated cause, compared to administrative overhead.

    Would you say that individual surplus can be consecrated to the Lord when we work together voluntarily to lift up oppressed in this fallen world?

    Do you think that the promised blessings can be realized outside of organized religion?

    I would be interested in hearing from other commenters about the charitable organizations they have seen to help address human suffering.

    • I think there are two parts: what and how.

      What are we supposed to do?
      D&C 42:29-30
      If thou lovest me thou shalt serve me and keep all my commandments. And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support.

      That’s just part of being a Christian, and I don’t think that obligation was taken away when the fullness was taken away. So we should still be looking to know the Lord by taking care of the poor.

      How are we supposed to do it?
      D&C 42:31
      Inasmuch as ye impart of your substance unto the poor, ye will do it unto me; and they shall be laid before the bishop of my church and his counselors.

      But what if the law of consecration isn’t operational, and the bishop and his counselors choose to invest any substance they receive into the real estate and stock markets? I think we are free to use whatever system we each deem best allows each of us as individuals to care for the poor.

      As for blessings, obviously we will be blessed for helping the poor in whatever mode we choose (“inasmuch as ye do it unto the least of these, ye do it unto me”). But the blessings of Zion are specifically predicated upon implementation of and obedience to the law of consecration. Even Abraham sought out Melchizedek to pay his tithes into the storehouse to care for the poor. That storehouse needs to be managed by a bishop called to that position, either via his right as a son of Aaron or by having received the fullness of the priesthood, the office of high priest. While I don’t see how we can be punished for not paying tithes into the storehouse when it doesn’t exist, I also don’t see anything in the scriptures that allows us to receive the blessings of Zion without the law of consecration.

      D&C 105
      3 But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;
      4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;
      5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.
      6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer.

      We need to learn obedience to this law. I think if we choose to live the principle of caring for the poor now through our individual efforts, it will be much easier for us when we have the law of consecration operating in our midst and need to develop the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom. And Zion cannot be built up without that union, so we can’t do it individually.

      Two organizations that I work with:
      Feed My Starving Children – Volunteers in the US pay for and pack food that is sent all over the world. “MannaPacks” are single meals (just add water and heat) that provide all the nutrients and vitamins for children. The before/after pictures of malnourished children are stunning.

      St. Mary’s Food Bank – the world’s first food bank, started here in Phoenix. From here more food banks were started, leading to the Global Food Banking Network. The destruction of the US economy this year has made foodbanks a necessity for millions of Americans that never needed them before.

  2. I believe Lyman Wight said it best, when he said that God would work a work in these last days that tongue cannot express, and the mind is not capable to conceive.

    I believe when that work happens, our perception of time is going to drastically change. I know sometimes I say things that are hard to understand, I suppose it comes with the certain perspective I have. I doubt I would take the time to try and express my understanding if I hadn’t been convinced by things that revolutionized the way I use to think. And it would be most unlikely for me to even be aware of these things, if something had not given me one idea that has consumed my life.

    I don’t believe that one man alone can understand the work, putting on strength also seems to me, to imply the classic adage of strength in numbers. And numbers are obviously important in the work, for by them it is easier to see eye to eye. Which is why I think the adversary’s main purpose of the infamous sequence numbers is to mimic the Lord.

    While I obviously don’t want to conclude what the desolation of abomination all entails, that is highlighted obtusely in the book of Daniel. And so after realizing the kingdoms that Daniel saw, not to be confused with the dream of king Nebbie, that they are kingdoms formed after the stone cut out without hands has smashed the statue of king Nebbie. The feet and toes of clay and iron, which clay are the “more righteous”, and the iron is not. Since clay is malleable enough to take form from water, fire, and air; in likeness of the true gospel. Iron obviously requires a furnace of some sort.

    It is apparent that the destruction of Jerusalem is the key element in the multiple fulfillments, and the abomination of desolation that will literally fulfill verses in Daniel is…

    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    (New Testament | Revelation 13:14 – 15)

    David’s Jerusalem, needs to be rebuilt along with the final temple, so the Anti Christ can overthrow the city and desecrate the temple with the image of the beast. At which point the notable two witnesses appear at the scene, and get killed by Abaddon, the one that came before our earth’s Lucifer. As there “must needs be” always a devil to tempt the children of men. Since Satan is the essence that corrupts men and demons. The very evil that is plucked out and cut off, that is purged through Christ’s blood. Since Christ mystically partook of the wine of the forbidden fruit by the bitter cup that is codexed with all the good and evil for this world.

    The land of Jerusalem is out of place, and when the Lord rejoins the lands, Jerusalem shall be restored to choice land. But for now musts need be near the ancient Egypt to be fulfilled in the way the scriptures foretell, the desolation of abomination. So this can be fulfilled…

    17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury—thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling wrung out—
    18 And none to guide her among all the sons she hath brought forth; neither that taketh her by the hand, of all the sons she hath brought up.
    19 These two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee—thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword—and by whom shall I comfort thee?
    20 Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets; as a wild bull in a net, they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.
    (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 8:17 – 20)

    15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?
    A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.
    (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 77:15)

    As implied, the verse from Isaiah mentions the two witnesses from the book of Revelation, which would set the time they are sent to Jerusalem during the second woe of the seventh seal. And it seems the great earthquake from the opening of the sixth seal has yet to take place. I am not too expectant for the opening of the seventh seal, which means that the sanctification of the Lord’s great army of 144,000 high priests from the latter days and ancient times, has already taken place. For the means of scattering the enemies watchmen, and the throwing down of their towers. Which is why the final temple in Jerusalem needs to be built, so Messiah the Prince can trample the wicked in his vengeance, and stain his garments with their blood, in a way that his sanctified army remain in white and pure garments.

    As for the Millennium, I don’t believe it is exactly 1000 years, since the JST changed one verse that lengthens the duration of the church being sent into the wilderness after delivering the kingdom of God and the man child who is to rule the heathen nations while Zion is established. Not exactly the Messiah, because the Bridegroom being born from the bride doesn’t make sense to me. As the Anti Christ king imitates the righteous and mighty king, who is one with the King of Kings and seems to be the righteous servant that was marred.

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
    (New Testament | Revelation 12:6)

    JST Rev 12:5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.

    The wilderness mentioned seems to me to be the Millennium, name one point in time that is stated as the space of a one thousand years which could differ because of the eternal state of the earth as Jesus Christ is personally reigning. That is counted as a refuge from the face of the serpent, and even the term wilderness is used in a certain context in D&C 88:66. Even wilderness of darkness in D&C 109:73 seems to imply to me that when Zion is suddenly established, there will be eternal beings that surpass all understanding inhabiting the holy mountain of Lord. It saddens me, because it has occurred to me that the parable of 101, could very well be fulfilled when the vile king enters the choice land. And scatters the stakes of Zion that procrastinated in the time of peace, that will be established from the arrival of the one mighty and strong servant, from the heavens. As either way the choice seer returns, he will still have to be caught up to the throne of God.

    And so if the words of Isaiah are all to be dual fulfilled, there is a certain phrase concerning the latter day Cyrus that indicates he doesn’t appear on the earth with his memory.

    1 THUS saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
    2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
    3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
    4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
    5 ¶ I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
    6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
    (Old Testament | Isaiah 45:1 – 6)

    Joseph the Seer is the latter day Cyrus, because of the terms treasures and hidden riches. People don’t realize how prophetic Joseph being a treasure seeker was. And that the patriarchal blessings of the tribes of Israel from Jacob and Moses make mention to me of two Josephs, as they referenced Joseph of Egypt as the one separated from his brethren. And the blessings seem to suggest to me that the full blessing of Joseph wouldn’t be manifested until the marvelous work.

    13 ¶ And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
    14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
    15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
    16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
    (Old Testament | Deuteronomy 33:13 – 16)

    25. He shall be a law giver to Israel, and shall teach the house of Jacob the statutes of the Most High.
    26. His testimony shall shine like the sun, and the weight of his influence shall be like the great river that rises on the east of the everlasting hills, and flows into the great deep so shall his righteousness ever abound.
    27. He shall partake of the blessing of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the chief things of the ancient mountains, the precious things that couch beneath, and the treasure hid in the sand.

    As we can see, Joseph’s patriarchal blessing from Oliver links specifically with the blessings of ancient times. And so using the patriarchal blessings, it enlightens us in the fact that the Lord gives the latter day Cyrus, treasures of the blessings. To which; wait a minute wouldn’t Joseph already know the God of Israel? If Joseph shakes the dust off his coat tails, is the Lord going to erase his memories of the sacred grove and D&C 76, etc? It is absurd to think that the Lord would make someone that knew him, not know him. Just so the Lord can fulfill the scripture in how latter day Cyrus the shepherd does not know him. It is painfully obvious that the anticipated servant was Joseph Smith, but isn’t Joseph Smith, both of who are connected in a sense that is a bewilderment to people, including myself.

    And so since Cyrus is used as a name to hide the Lord’s latter day shepherd, I am sure we are all quite familiar with the Lord’s rant in Ezekiel against the shepherds that feed themselves, and how suddenly the Lord makes mention of his servant David. Which it seems everyone thinks is Christ during the gathering of Israel, but with latter chapters making mention of there being only one shepherd in those times, it cannot be possible for Cyrus and David to be a shepherd at the same time. Which means to me they are the same exact person, and so the David of Ezekiel cannot be Christ because the Son obviously knows the Father. And the Lord being one in the tabernacle of David, for David shall be a host for the Lord of Hosts. 3 Nephi 19:29; Isaiah 49:3

    And so if all the words of Isaiah must be dual fulfilled, lookie lookie what we have here. In the last days, when a glorified nation comes into being that the world does not yet know, David is given as a witness, leader and commander to the people.

    3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
    4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
    5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
    (Old Testament | Isaiah 55:3 – 5)

    1 HAVE mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
    2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
    3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
    4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
    5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
    6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
    7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
    8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
    9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
    10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
    11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.
    12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free Spirit.
    13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
    14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
    15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
    16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
    17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
    18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
    19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
    (Old Testament | Psalms 51:1 – 19)

    Even though David was not a prophet like Samuel or Nathan, he was a prophet in his own right, and even after he had sinned against the Lord. He prophesied of Zion and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and even the offering from the sons of Levi, and quite possibly the sons of Adam. The obscured offering of Joseph and Sidney and rest of the first laborers isn’t exactly common knowledge. If the Lord is pleased with the offering again of animals, then I don’t suppose it is speculative to acknowledge of what might take place in the future. Especially since the fulness of times might bring servants into the vineyard that have offered unto the Lord, in the similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten and Firstborn of the Father.

    Speaking of the “good pleasure” of the Lord, because of the prophecy that Joseph would be like Joseph of Egypt, something in the specific verse in the Book of Mormon seems to be missing as if it were omitted. Seems like the word storehouse should be where the phrase; for the thing. As it makes sense with the following sentence. Making the prophecy: And he shall be like unto me; for the establishment of the Lord’s storehouse and the things in which the Lord seemeth good, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.

    15 And his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me; for the thing, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.
    (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 3:15)

    The treasures of darkness and hidden riches of secrets places is the means of establishing the poor among the house of Israel, and building up of the kingdom of Zion. Besides I am sure the dividing of the EPA could count as a shadow fulfillment. If only Joseph would come out of hiding spot and claim his rightful place. Is it too much to ask the Lord to reveal Joseph immediately, so I am not trapped by the workings of my mind. To absolve the constraint upon my heart.

    35 Therefore, as I said unto you, ask and ye shall receive; pray earnestly that peradventure my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., may go with you, and preside in the midst of my people, and organize my kingdom upon the consecrated land, and establish the children of Zion upon the laws and commandments which have been and which shall be given unto you.
    (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 103:35)

  3. Michael Aug 5, 2021

    I really appreciate all the time you two devote to producing this valuable podcast.
    This episode was excellent. I do take exception to a point made and reinforced at the end of this episode in relation to 3 Nephi 26 6-11. On one hand you state the belief that the “fullness” exists in the canon while on the other concede, correctly, there are greater truths/mysteries that either have been revealed to select individuals or have yet to be revealed. Which is it? Over and over you make jabs at the LDS endowment ceremony/ordinance, using it as an example of how the church is promoting a false ‘covenant path’ consisting of non-scriptural ordinances or covenants (there is no ordinance without an associated covenant). While I agree there is no “power of the priesthood” extant in LDS temple ordinances, they are modeled upon true ordinances that the LDS church has grossly abbreviated and perform without authority or power. Joseph Smith observed a partally correct version of various ordinances as a Mason and was directed to select the correct portions of these ordinances and compile them into what would eventually be performed in the Nauvoo temple. This never occured as the Lord directed him but he did perform portions of these ordinances with select individuals prior to his murder. This would seem to indicate the ‘fullness’ consists of a body of mysteries that are not explicitly stated (but implicit) in the present canon. Your comments relating to this ‘fullness’ throughout your podcasts are schizophrenic: waffling between condemnation of the LDS church throughout its history due to changes in doctrine (true and false) or conceding that there exist higher doctrines yet to be revealed (pre-millenial/millenial).

    John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    Jesus made this comment to his disciples/apostles just prior to the end of his mortal ministry. If his closest followers could not bear what he needed to say after ~3 years of continual ministry, when would they be? I believe the visitations of Christ during what is known as the 40-day ministry may provide some clues though the apocryphal works do not elaborate to a great extent. We could surmise there were new, higher doctrines revealed and the associated ordinances/covenants. This would certainly consist of greater light and knowledge beyond what Christ taught during his mortal ministry and was captured in canon. They were also most likely not revealed to all those who believed Jesus was the Christ, but only his closest followers. This blows apart the false notion that all true doctrine is revealed or presented to every believer regardless of the state of their heart. I believe we should re-evaluate how we understand the term “fulness” in light of statements in canon relating to greater and lesser portions of the word.

    • Hi Michael. I’m glad you enjoy the podcast.

      The scriptures describe the fullness of the gospel as faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. That’s it. Those principles are taught in the Bible and Book of Mormon, which is why the Lord can state “the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.” So I’m not the one claiming the fullness of the gospel is in the scriptures, the Lord made that statement in 1831 and I’m choosing to believe him.

      You state the LDS temple ceremonies are “modeled upon true ordinances.” Please show me the scriptural proof of those “true ordinances”. What is your basis for assuming there are other rituals beyond baptism that are required for salvation? Where are the revelations commanding Joseph to “perform portions of these ordinances with select individuals”? You state that this indicates the fullness consists of something beyond the scriptures, but there doesn’t appear to be any documented basis for that assumption.

      We have the same problem with the 40-day ministry. You are sssuming, surmising, and speculating as to what Jesus taught. Jesus made it clear the apostles did not understand even after his resurrection how Jesus was fulfilling the Old Testament prophesies. Isn’t it likely that, just like he did on the road to Emmaus, he spent that time re-teaching them the true meaning of all the scriptures and explaining how the new kingdom was to go forth? I don’t see how groundless speculation of new ordinances can “blow apart” the Lord’s own assertion that the Bible and Book of Mormon contain the fullness of the gospel.

      I know we’ve all been indoctrinated with that “logic” since birth in this church, but there is no evidence backing up the thought process. If that chain of thought is true, then God is a liar because he declared in 1831 that the fullness of the gospel was contained in the scriptures, and in 3 Nephi 11 taught faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost and said anything more or less than that comes from evil. I choose to believe God isn’t a liar.

      As for the mysteries:
      D&C 71:1 commands Joseph and Sidney to expound the mysteries of the gospel out of the scriptures. How could they do that if the mysteries are not contained in the scriptures?

      Mosiah 1:3 says the mysteries are contained upon the gold plates, and 1:5 says “we might read and understand of his mysteries”. Alma 37:4 repeats this, but then adds in verse 11 that there are mysteries that are not yet fully made known. But he’s talking about “who knoweth but what they will be the means of bringing thousands of them…to the knowledge of their Redeemer.” The mystery isn’t about temple rituals, but about how thousands will be taught the true gospel. The mystery isn’t the “what”, it’s the “how”.

      D&c 90:14 says Joseph will receive “revelations to unfold the mysteries of the kingdom”. Where are these revelations from God that tell us we need secret handshakes and passwords to get to heaven? Where are the revelations that tell us we need to swear blood oaths to show our obedience to God? Where are the revelations that tell us we have to wear special underwear to protect us against the power of Satan? If you can show me those documented revelations, then we can begin to have a discussion.