Iron Rod 078 – Alma 17-20
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Ammon preaches to king Lamoni. Lamoni cries out for the Lord’s mercy and is redeemed and sees a vision of Christ. After he is redeemed, he is baptized.

Helaman 6:5

D&C 107:8, 18,

Alma 22:15

Helaman 3:35

D&C 113

3 Nephi 27:10

Matthew 10:16

Matthew 15:22

1 Nephi 1:8-10

 

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5 comments on “Iron Rod 078 – Alma 17-20

  1. I did a quick search for “agents unto themselves” four results come up. Interestingly two of them, in sections 58 and 104, are about Zion.

    Section 58:

    26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

    27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

    28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

    29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.

    30 Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments?

    31 Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?

    32 I command and men obey not; I revoke and they receive not the blessing.

    33 Then they say in their hearts: This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But wo unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above.

    34 And now I give unto you further directions concerning this land.

    35 It is wisdom in me that my servant Martin Harris should be an example unto the church, in laying his moneys before the bishop of the church.

    36 And also, this is a law unto every man that cometh unto this land to receive an inheritance; and he shall do with his moneys according as the law directs.

    Section 104:
    15 And it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine.

    16 But it must needs be done in mine own away; and behold this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints, that the poor shall be exalted, in that the rich are made low.

    17 For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.

    18 Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment.

    This is quite interesting because if you think about it how can you truly be an agent unto yourself if you are living in poverty and slaving away for some soulless corporation? This is one of the reasons Zion is so necessary. It is a place where people can have the financial and temporal security, to then have the luxury to choose the good over the evil. Here in America a lot of us really are quite blessed with free time, but not all of us even in America have such a luxury. This is why God commands we should be equal in temporal things that we may also be equal in spiritual things.

    Finally if we don’t have agency we cannot be saved, and to have agency both good and evil must exist, and we must be clearly taught and offered the real baptism of water, blood, and the spirit.

    Moses 6:
    55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good.

    56 And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves, and I have given unto you another law and commandment.

    57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

    58 Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying:

    59 That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory;

    60 For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified;

    Notice again like you guys mentioned, we repent before God not to a bishop, which is a bs doctrine we borrowed from the Catholics apparently. God wants us to choose Him because we want to not because we have to. Also no mention of temple ordinances for salvation just the simple three part baptism. That’s it. Also several verses later Adam becomes a son of God aka true high priest. So becoming a true high priest is linked with the true baptism. Thanks again for a great episode.

    • Ranae Jun 2, 2020

      I was thinking about how this phrase “agents unto themselves” squares with the idea that we are always a servant to someone, either God or Satan, if we are agents unto ourselves. I don’t know anything about sports, but is it similar to the ability of a “free agent” to determine his own contract? Anyone care to explain to me how this agent thing works in the world of sports, and whether the analogy sheds light on the spiritual teams we contract ourselves to?

  2. Anthony Jun 2, 2020

    Excellent podcast… Excellent message. Believe Christ and look and live.

    1 Nephi 10
    17 …I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.
    18 For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.
    19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

  3. Ranae Jun 2, 2020

    Has anyone else struggled to separate truth from the “traditions of their fathers?” I know we should search the scriptures and “prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thes. 5:21) However, without a direct connection to heaven, some things are only best guesses at what is right, until there are true servants with actual knowledge of God’s will.

    For example, the scriptures say that baptism of little children is “solemn mockery before God” (Moroni 8:9), that it is their parents who need repentance and baptism (Moroni 8:10), and that attaining the years of accountability and being capable of repentance are the criteria for baptism (D&C 20:71, 137:10, 18:42), but other than direction for 8 year old children who live in Zion (none currently) what “age” is that? I have young adult children on my insurance, and need to co-sign federal documents and rental agreements for my children who start college. The LDS church gives “the priesthood” to 11 year old boys, but they call the parents to drive them to do fast offerings. Enoch called himself “but a lad” when he was called on a mission to preach repentance, but he was probably older than 65, the age when he begat Methuselah.

    And who is qualified to perform baptisms? If the fullness of the gospel is found in the Bible and Book of Mormon, we know that John had authority from an angel, the apostles had authority from Christ, but we don’t really know where Alma received his authority. We only know that Ammon who found the people of Limhi said he felt unworthy to baptize them, not that he didn’t have authority to baptize them. (And that was prior to Alma’s group getting back to Zarahemela.) Most of the people in the Book of Mormon didn’t give any details about whether they were baptized or not, although we can assume that was common because Nephi #1 talked about its importance. My point here is that we have traditions passed down to us, but not a real clear record to go by to know whether we are just acting on our own traditions or according to God’s perfect pattern.

    I don’t mean to make this about baptism in particular, just using that as one example of how religious traditions of the fathers can get passed down and how difficult it can be to sort out what is really true even when you want to do what is right and are willing to change things if you really knew you were in the wrong.

  4. Ranae Jun 4, 2020

    Since this seems to be a quiet week on the comment section, I will throw out another parallel between the chapters we covered and current events. One interesting trend in the political scene is the increased support for Pres Trump and the MAGA agenda within the black community. How did this happen? He started working with them on the issues they are concerned about, like prison reform and jobs. You might say, he went into their territory and said, “I will be thy servant.” There is not a majority of support yet, but the numbers are growing rapidly. (I am sure the example of Dennis Rodman and Kanye helped, just like Lamoni’s support made Ammon’s work much easier.)

    Now to be totally honest, a few months ago I thought maybe the parallels would come through groups of advisors who were working in countries like China or North Korea to bring about new trade arrangements and peace. This has absolutely nothing to do with race or skin color. However, recent events with the rioting and Antifa (Nephite dissenters) using violence to hijack the protests of BLM and other groups supporting issues of justice for black Americans (represented by mainstream Lamanites in the chapters) seem to be more in line with the political shifts taking place and the prophetic history we will be covering in the upcoming war chapters of Alma.

    (note: I know this is not a political blog, and many people disagree with my statements about Trump. I am not putting these comments here for any political purpose, simply to illustrate how the prophetic history in the Book of Mormon seems to be playing out in America right now. At this point in time there are many people who discount Joseph Smith as a prophet. What better way to clear his name than to show that the book he translated nearly 200 years ago accurately predicted the future events that would take place at a pivotal time in history?)