Iron Rod 057 – 2 Nephi 11-15
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We dig into Isaiah, including what he means when he says “the mountain of the Lord shall be established in the tops of the mountains”, “their land is also full of gold and silver”, and a spontaneous discussion on “For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.”

2 Nephi 13:14

Isaiah 13:4

D&C 112:7

Deuteronomy 28:13

D&C 84:2

Isaiah 31:7

Ezekiel 16:48-49

2 Nephi 19:14

2 Nephi 28:13

2 Nephi 20:32

2 Nephi 8:25

Jacob 5:73-74

D&C 64:21

D&C 101:43-62

D&C 106:16

Matthew 18:20

2 Nephi 19:12, 17, 21

2 Nephi 20:4-7

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7 comments on “Iron Rod 057 – 2 Nephi 11-15

  1. Ranae Jan 10, 2020

    I have an alternative explanation for why “a man shall cast his idols of silver and his idols of gold… into the clefts of the rocks and into the tops of the ragged rocks.” That seems like a lot of effort to hide something that is worthless. Instead, I believe it is because these things are evidence of their crimes against mankind and the commandments of the Lord. It is like the effort to hide or destroy evidence.

    Just a couple days ago, an actress was publicly praising her decision to have an abortion early in here career, without which she would not be standing there to receive her little idol of gold and silver. The same is true of CEOs who became very wealthy by downsizing and outsourcing their workforce simply to create higher profit margins. Are those the kinds of accomplishments that they will be proud to display on judgment day? We literally live in a time when good is called evil and evil is called good.

    I would be interested in seeing you bring into the discussion of Isaiah, the JST translation from Psalms. I think these sections track closely with each other.

    • I like your interpretation of casting the idols into the rocks.

      Which Psalms in particular? I’m aware of 14 having some important changes relative to Zion. Are there others you have in mind?

      • Ranae Jan 10, 2020

        When I was doing a JST comparison of the OT several years ago, I noticed a lot of changes beginning with Psalms 10 (although you wouldn’t see them if you only had the LDS KJV footnotes to go off of.). So, starting with chapter 10, you have a description of some of the sins of the wicked. In chapter 11, the righteous are called to “flee unto my mountain” and “upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire, and brimstone, and a horrible tempest, the portion of their cup.”

        Chapter 12 tells us that the Lord will “stand upon the earth to judge the earth for the oppression of the poor” because “the godly man shall cease to be found”. while “the wicked walk on every side, and the vilest men are exalted”. (The JST for this one isn’t found in KJV)

        Chapter 13 talks about a time when the Lord is hidden from those who seek him.

        Chapter 14 is a great parable of sending the servants to see if anyone understands God. They report that many people claim to be His, but they are all gone astray and are filthy, doing no good. “All they have for teachers are workers of iniquity, and there is no knowledge in them.” And the pleading that God establish Zion.

        Chapter 15 tells us who will dwell in Zion.

        It seems as though Isaiah gives the global perspective, but Psalms might hold the key to the details of what separates the righteous from the wicked (in case anyone wants advance notice of the test questions they will be answering for personally.)

  2. Ranae Jan 10, 2020

    I disagree with your comment about the DAUGHTERS of Zion being all the house of Jacob/Israel rather than vain women simply because there are other verses about the DAUGHTER of Zion being Jerusalem.

    There are very few scriptures written specifically to women, in fact they often seem to be missing completely, so I hate the idea that we can’t even be called out to repentance for our particular flavor of pride. How is this reprimand any different that the advice given in 1 Timothy 2:9-10 “that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works” or from 1 Peter 3:3-5 “[Wives] whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves”.

    I will be the first to admit that I don’t like men telling me what to do, or wear, or judging my life. However, I think it inappropriate for you (men) to teach that the words of Isaiah which apply to the sins of the daughters of Zion are not really about them at all. Let me also add that any woman who is caring for little children probably isn’t wearing high heels, jewelry, or dry clean only outfits. Some days and life stages it is really hard just to find time to brush your hair and wear something clean. I have used these verses from Isaiah to remind myself that God sees and loves his daughters. He wants them to have eternal joy and not just the pleasure of a pretty face and fancy clothes. That helps. In fact, reading these verses as a high school student (not because they were pointed out by a seminary teacher) was one of the first experiences I had of likening the scriptures unto myself and making a correction to my priorities because I felt that was what God would be pleased with. I have never felt that impression was misguided.

    • Ranae Jan 10, 2020

      Continuing with the theme of women, what do you suppose the “reproach” is (2 Ne. 14:1) that the women who seem to have plenty of bread and apparel are referring to, that they would need a man to correct? Do we have a clear understanding of what basis God will be judging men and women on in “that” day? 1 Timothy 2:15 says, “”they shall be saved in child-bearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

      I am not trying to lecture anyone. I am simply showing the scriptures as I have put pieces together. Do you have a different explanation for what God expects of his daughters? I would love to hear it (from the scriptures) because my life would be completely different without taking God’s word literally. Its something I wrestle with frequently, because my natural inclinations run contrary to the daily sacrifices required of being a mom. However, I found tremendous relief once I realized that the “inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these” could be applied in the daily efforts of motherhood, rather than needing to run a household and then go out and find “the least” and minister to them as well. I do look forward to having Jesus tell me “well done” because it is exhausting living in a culture that runs opposite to my daily priorities, even if the struggle is mostly internal.

    • That’s a fair criticism. I should have talked about dual fulfillment. As the father of two college-age daughters, I’m sensitive to men telling women how to dress and measuring a woman’s righteousness by her hemline, which probably caused me to subconsciously put more emphasis on the figurative language. I definitely didn’t want to convey that all that primping and preening was approved of God! While I wanted to focus on the figurative message that everyone, male and female, needs to clean up their act, I should not have ruled out the literal interpretation. I stand corrected.

  3. A side-note that I found interesting: There is a Cedar of Lebanon at temple square in SLC that the church has gone to great lengths to preserve. Look it up; its a real thing. There was even an a time when ice sliding of a nearby building sheared the top off the tree… You can’t make these things up!

    While it is easy to point fingers at the church in many respects, I am sure many of us realize that these kinds of scriptural representations provide a chance for personal introspection (perhaps more scripturally appropriate). Am I ‘high and lifted up’? Am I haughty and proud? Do I allow prosperity to overcome the strength of the roots/foundation? What idols have I created for myself?