The office of Presiding Patriarch was introduced in the 1830’s when Joseph Smith Sr. was ordained to that office and told that he and his posterity would hold that office. In D&C 124, the Lord specifies the duties of that office and called Hyrum to the office of Presiding Patriarch after the death of his father. Upon the death of Hyrum, efforts began immediately to minimize and marginalize the Presiding Patriarch, until in 1979 the leadership just got rid of the office. In addition to discussing what the office is supposed to be, and what that means for us today, we also reveal the traditionally accepted date of the introduction of the Presiding Patriarch is wrong, and how the actual date fits perfectly into the downgraded-church timeline.
D&C 124:28, 91-96, 123-143
D&C 104
D&C 107:39
Matthew 23:15
In reference back to the Elijah and John the Baptist podcast I had a head start before last week. I had listened to many YouTube audio recordings read by Mrs. Watcher and many of them more than once. Solving the Prophet Puzzle and The Secret History of the Church and The Return of Joseph Smith gave me much to process including Elijah and John the Baptist. I recommend these recordings to everyone as a supplement and support to the Ironrodpodcast. There is so much to process in the search. In my case, Watcher is always with you. Thank you for your research and presentations which are gratefully received and most helpful. In regard to the Patriarch: it is a sorry day when the scriptures are totally ignored, swept under the rug, and misrepresented. Unfortunately, I am one who took things lightly and you uncover things that make me say, “How did I miss that?” I am starting to see “hidden treasures of knowledge” that I never even noticed before.
Wow, great podcast. As someone who is just starting to seek answers, the summary of the downgrading of the church was very insightful. Can you post the scripture reference to 3.5 years from Revelations?
Also, would you be able to start posting references for the non-canonized quotes you use from church history or otherwise? For this podcast, the references to Joseph saying Hyrum was in charge, as well as the incorporation of the Church under President Grant would be super helpful.
Articles of incorporation: https://mormondisclosures.blogspot.com/2014/09/articles-of-incorporation-archive.html
Joseph – “Said I would not prophesy any more, and proposed Hyrum to hold the office of prophet to the Church, as it was his birthright. I am going to have a reformation, and the Saints must regard Hyrum, for he has the authority.” HC 5:510 (paraphrased on 5:512). Refusal on 5:517-518.
Is the 3.5 years prophecy found in Revelation 11:3? “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” There are some obvious parallels to the power of these witnesses and the fulness of the priesthood, but the verses describing how the witnesses will be slain in Jerusalem (where the Lord was crucified) are causing me some confusion if this is indeed talking about someone like Joseph and Hyrum/Sidney Rigdon. I suppose it is possible that they could be slain again after they come back. There are a handful of other references in Revelation to a 3.5 year period, but I’m having trouble seeing how any of them relate to the church having the fulness for 3.5 years. Would you mind clarifying which 3.5 year time period in Revelation you believe relates to the 3.5 years of fulness for the Church from June 5, 1831 – December 6, 1834?
Revelation 11:2 (JST) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 12:5 (JST) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.
Revelation 12:14 (JST) Therefore to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might flee into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent
Revelation 13:5 (JST) And there was given unto [the beast with seven heads] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Hi Thomas:
Great question. I don’t believe the 3.5 years of the fulness relates to Revelation 11:3 because of all the power manifest by the two servants and their being brought back to life with great fear upon the people. I think Revelation 12 is a better fit if you think about the woman as the Church that is nourished for a time, and times and half a time from the face of the serpent. I’ll admit this is somewhat of a cryptic reference, but it is very curious to observe that from the restoration of the high priesthood at the Morley Farm until the unpublished revelation of condemnation was exactly 3.5 years. Also, at the Morley Farm conference the Man of Sin was revealed, perhaps being cast out of heaven at that time. That part also fits with Revelation 12. I’m open to other interpretations based on additional information. I see the parallels but in my mind it is not yet a slam dunk.
By the church’s/corporation’s logic, we shouldn’t have a presiding bishopric either because we have even more bishops than local patriarchs. One thing I’ve been wondering about for the last several years is the accuracy/validity of patriarchal blessings. I’ve studied my own and some things seem to fit but others don’t. The patriarch who gave me my blessing seemed to be a sincere good man who continued to give blessings despite being quite ill. But I still am not sure.