The Iron Rod Podcast
The Iron Rod Podcast
Iron Rod 027 - The LDS endowment, more or less

The modern LDS church teaches that within temples we can receive ordinances beyond baptism that are necessary for our salvation. These ordinances are so sacred that they aren’t even mentioned in the scriptures, yet we are told that they have been revealed to prophets in every dispensation since Adam. This week we explore these claims and test them against what the scriptures teach. Could millions of people truly be suffering under delusion?

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11

2 Nephi 26:23

Isaiah 45:19

Isaiah 48:16

2 Nephi 9:41

D&C 110:9

D&C 124:28, 39, 40

Jeremiah 23:10

Isaiah 48:1

3 Nephi 12:33-37

Moses 5:29

Isaiah 28

Isaiah 1

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Moroni 10:30-31

Isaiah 52:5

D&C 63:61-63

Isaiah 5:13

D&C 85:7

Daniel 7:21-22

Hosea 8:14

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25 comments on “Iron Rod 027 – The LDS endowment, more or less

  1. Thanks for another great podcast guys, I agree with almost everything you said. However, as I wrote in my comment last week, I still believe that the temple endowment was either directly given to Joseph by God, or God allowed Joseph to receive false revelation from Satan in order to turn us over to Satan through the curse of a lesser law just as Israel anciently was cursed with the Law of Moses. Moreover, I still believe that God in his mercy allowed some truths to be incorporated into the endowment such as revealing the fact that we have been placed into Satan’s power, and that in order to return to God’s presence we need the fullness of the priesthood. I admit that most of the endowment is pure delusion based on Masonry, which in turn draws on ancient mystery religions, whose ultimate origins appear to be ancient Egyptian religion, and then ultimately the secret combinations instituted by Satan. However, I still believe that God did intervene at least a little to put a few elements of truth into the endowment in order to alert the elect to their awful state. For example, the only scriptures that have anything to do with the temple endowment are actually not really scriptures per se, but the facsimiles in the book of Abraham and especially facsimile 2, which interestingly enough was published the day that Joseph became a Mason (March 15, 1842). Although the whole Book of Abraham is relevant to the endowment, because it teaches about the patriarchal priesthood, which is what I argue is the priesthood which the church possesses and uses in the temple. Furthermore, the first chapter of Abraham teaches that the Pharaohs claim to have the priesthood when in fact they do not, and thus they sought to mimic the priesthood. If you look at the three facsimiles they seem to show the progression incorporated in the endowment. The first facsimile shows the offering of sacrifice upon the alter and God intervening to save Abraham. In the temple this is the equivalent of Adam offering sacrifice on the alter and then receiving divine messengers. In the second facsimile we see the information Abraham learned about the heavens aka creation, and most importantly information pertaining to the priesthood and other information that is to be revealed in the temple. If you look carefully at some of the figures in facsimile 2 especially figure 7 you will notice that the figure is actually making some of the signs of the priesthood as taught in the temple. Even the hands of the seated figure make the sign of the square and floating above the arm is the compass. The third facsimile as stated in the description shows Abraham already sitting on Pharaoh’s throne which I would say represents him gaining godhood as the Pharaoh’s considered themselves gods. Thus, the endowment/masonry is simply a corruption of the true priesthood as handed down to Adam and the other patriarchs. In fact I believe that the Book of Abraham is actually the key in understanding that we have been deceived and have received a great delusion by accepting the temple endowment as the highest order of priesthood. Many people believe that Joseph is a false prophet and that the book of Abraham proves that he is because we can now read hieroglyphics and what the papyrus actually says is not even close to what is contained in the book of Abraham. However, I believe that this was intentionally done by the Lord for two reasons. Firstly, to test our faith as Abraham’s faith was tested. That is, will we still believe in Joseph as a true prophet even though this revelation appears to be a fraud. And secondly Joseph says that we will learn the secrets contained in the facsimiles in the temple, which again is I believe a warning to those who are paying attention. Facsimile 2 is a hypocephalus in fact it actually has its own Wikipedia page: Therefore, since these papyri are nothing more than pagan egyptian religion, and we are being told that this is what we will be learning in the temple, shouldn’t we be asking ourselves why this is the secret of the temple? The grand secret is that we are taught pagan religion masquerading as true religion/priesthood, and the book of Abraham actually proves this to us. The endowment will not save us, just as the blood of bulls and goats could not save those who lived the law of Moses. Thus, it is arrogance to believe that we can save ourselves through secret knowledge, which is exactly what the Egyptians believed. I actually haven’t had time to write another blog post on the arrogance of the endowment which you touched on in the podcast today, so maybe sometime this month I’ll write it finally. Only Christ can save us we cannot save ourselves as the endowment claims. Anyways thanks again for the enlightening podcast.

  2. Another great podcast, thanks!

    I had an institute class where the teacher used Isaiah 6:3-4; 2 Nephi 16:3-4 as biblical references to portions of the endowment specifically at the veil room.

    • Searcher Jun 10, 2019

      Talk about STRETCHING to come up with a Temple reference! He obviously mad an impression on your mind. I W-R-E-S-T my case.

  3. Hey guys. Nice work as usual. I haven’t seen these handshake pictures you discussed. Can you post some of them here?

  4. I would very much appreciate input from others regarding scriptures in Ezekiel and Jeremiah that I have recently found very thought provoking when tied together regarding the temple endowment. Hopefully I can capture my thoughts well.

    Scriptures (the entire chapters and context as well)
    • Ezekiel 13: 17-23
    • Jeremiah 5: 26-27

    Ezekiel 13
    The first half of this chapter addresses the ‘foolish prophets’ who speak ‘lying divination[s]’, attributing to God things that are not of God. (Speaking peace, untampered morter, etc)

    17-23 jumped out to me as possibly speaking about temple work and even the temple clothing
    • Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you? Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord. (Ezk 13: 18, 20-21)
    o Digging into the Hebrew words is very interesting as well
    o The Hebrew root of the phrase ‘make them fly’ (as birds) led me to connect Jer 5: 26-27 to these verses
    o I have more connections and thoughts regarding this but will defer those and let the scriptures speak for themselves and others to read without my bias

    Jeremiah 5
    This chapter speaks of Israel’s guilt of replacing the Lord God of hosts with other gods and what will befall them because of it.

    26-27 directly connects to Ezk 13 via the birds reference
    • For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men. As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit (Jer 5: 26-27)

    I fully admit that I need to study this much more to verify if this does, indeed, hold up to scriptural scrutiny. That being said: I welcome others to agree, disagree, and provide more insight!

    • I think that’s an incredibly interesting find. I’ve looked up a number of commentaries on Ezekiel 13 and most of them focus on the ancient fulfillment of this prophecy. Some assume the women spoken of are fortune tellers and are reclining on the pillows, showing their ease and comfort rather then the urgency and dire situation about to befall ancient Israel.

      Interestingly, some translations change the pillows and armholes to magic charms on sleeves. This would look to be more in line with your interpretation.

      I think the dual nature of prophecies and their multiple fulfillments would point to the wording here being chosen to apply to both ancient and modern-day Israel. There’s definitely an angle here worth studying as it relates to our modern day practices.

    • Ranae Jun 15, 2019

      Could the phrase “sew pillows to all armholes” be a reference to our modesty standard being defined by the existence of sleeves? That seems to be the outward sign of whether or not someone is wearing temple garments…whether they keep their shoulders covered, including the addition of sleeves to sleeveless tops, or wearing an additional shirt to cover them.

  5. I am a new subscriber. I’ve listened to over half a dozen of these podcasts the past two days and have been greatly enlightened. I’ve listened and explored spiritual and gospel concepts that I never pondered previously. I am thrilled to have these podcasts to assist (actually launch after listening to your podcasts on the scriptures) with my scripture study and search. I thank you for listing the scripture references in the description. I saw this request in a review and I’m glad to see you read the reviews and respond appropriately. This addition is a great contribution.

    I’ve listened closely but have not been able to gather enough information to know where to find each of your perspective blogs. Would you please announce these in a future podcast or post in the description section? I would love to follow each of your blogs individually. One topic I’m looking forward to hearing is TITHING. If not already planning, please add this topic to your list for future podcasts. I’m now aware that I’d fallen victim to “confirmation bias” that you discuss in a previous podcast. If I ever questioned any concept taught in the church meetings, especially from the apostles and prophets, I looked for lightening to strike me dead. 🙂 I quietly questioned, but NEVER openly voiced my concerns because of the “traditions of men” within the church. Just in the past four months after being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, I’ve allowed myself the freedom to question and study concepts that have caused me much grief in my past. I have never enjoyed studying and learning church doctrines this

    I’ve have suffered much abuse from the male leaders over my 42 years membership. (I was baptized when I was 23 years old.) I don’t believe all of the abuse was malicious, but I do believe much of it was a result of pride and power that men believe they have because they “hold the priesthood”. Finally two years ago, I had a powerful spiritual experience after a bishop shook his hand in my face and threatened me with my church membership for not accepting a calling when I was totally overwhelmed as a caregiver for my dying husband. As I sat in my car heartbroken again after this experience, I heard a voice say to me, “You are getting rid of toxic relationships in your life. Are you ready to let go of this one?” As I jerked my head up from the steering wheel and looked up, I asked, “The Church?” I immediately knew the answer to my question. I was filled with peace. I immediately stopped crying and drove home to share the experience with my husband. I have since been diagnosed with “PTSD from the priesthood” (described in the words of my Elders Quorum President). I now understand that because of the “teachings” in the church, that I had always stuffed the feelings from abuse and never spoke about it because of the belief in the church that if you speak ill of the priesthood that you’re on the road to apostasy. I had great fear of being perceived as an apostate. When my husband asked if I would return to active church activity, I told him that I would return when God tells me it’s time. Every time I ponder returning, I find myself in a serious panic attack. Regardless, I am studying and learning more in a week than I learned attending church regularly for a year. This week this knowledge has come from The Iron Rod podcasts. For this I thank you.

    I look forward to following these podcasts and using your individual podcasts for my scripture study. I thank you very much for your willingness to share the knowledge you gain from your scripture studies.

    • We may not respond to every comment, but we do read every comment. The “About Us” page on the podcast website has links to our blogs (though I must admit that Searcher and I have not been publishing much lately as we work on finishing our book projects). You can access that page here:

      Thank you for sharing your story. Sadly, many have suffered as you have. Alma 33:2 is true.

      We are humbled, and happy, that our podcasts are helping you search the scriptures. Testimonials like that make it all worth it! Best wishes for you as you deal with your health issues and your priesthood PTSD.

    • Here is a recent post I did on tithing, I should spend more time on it as it is the subject that woke me up. But tithing and offerings are backwards in the LDS church, and most churches if you ask me.

    • I am sorry to hear about the abuse your received, I’ve had bishops try to use unrighteous domain on me before, but I didn’t fall for it, and in fact after they found out more of what was going on, they told me I was right now to follow their directions. They get very puffed up, and are not doing what the scriptures actually tell them to do, to be a common judge as stated in the D&C. Here is an article I focus mostly on some aspects that bishops should and should not be doing if you want to take a look. Also I have a contact page if you want to talk more.

      When a bishop says that we need their help to know if and when God has forgiven us, he is questioning our relationship with God, he is saying we are not capable of hearing God’s voice even after He has forgiven us. Something we should remember is that Cain talked with God after he slew Able. Which is questioning our relationship with God even when we are clean, possibily to the point of being worse than Cain’s. This is one of the things that once we understand this idiom it is saying not to do.

  6. I no longer believe that JS or God had anything to do with the LDS Temple ceremonies. But I believe the gate that is being talked about in 2 Nephi 9:41 is baptism as defined in 2 Nephi 31:17.

    Nephi had Zoram take an oath in 1 Nephi 4:33,35,37.

    Temple Penalties are Still Present Implicitly

    2 Nephi 28:5 And they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men;

    Here is some quotes from

    At some point God gave me Exodus 20:26, I don’t remember if He gave the verse to me before or after I removed my name, either way I remembered that God gave it to me and I didn’t do anything with it at the time.

    Exodus 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

    This verse has many implications that arise from it including Book of Mormon Geography. What I want to bring out right now is how the Kohen, priests, who worked at the temple did not were garments, if they had there would have been no concern about nakedness being exposed if steps were allowed to be used to go up to the alter.

    Heck the Book of Mormon teaches against baptisms for the dead (see 2 Nephi (LDS 9:26) (RLDS 6:54-55), Mosiah (LDS 3:11) (RLDS 1:107), Mosiah (LDS 15:24) (RLDS 8:58-59), Moroni (LDS 8:22-23) (RLDS 8:25-27). Not to mention that the Book of Mormon teaches us we can not repent after we die (see 2 Nephi (LDS 2:21) (RLDS 1:107-110), Mosiah (LDS 2:33) (RLDS 1:74-75), Mosiah (LDS 15:26-27) (RLDS 8:61-65), Alma (LDS 34:32-35) (RLDS 16:228-234), Alma (LDS 42:13) (RLDS 19:94-95), Alma (LDS 42:28) (RLDS 19:111)).

    Moroni (LDS 8:22-23) (RLDS 8:25-27)
    22 For behold that all little children are ALIVE IN CHRIST, AND ALSO all they that are WITHOUT THE LAW. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such BAPTISM AVAILETH NOTHING— 23 But it is MOCKERY before God, DENYING the MERCIES of CHRIST, and the POWER of his HOLY SPIRIT, and putting trust in DEAD WORKS.

    Mosiah (LDS 2:33) (RLDS 1:74-75) For behold, there is a wo pronounced upon him who listeth to obey that spirit; for if he listeth to obey him, and remaineth and DIETH IN HIS SINS, THE SAME DRINKETH DAMNATION TO HIS OWN SOUL; for he receiveth for his wages an EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, having transgressed the law of God contrary to his own knowledge.

    Yes, yes, I know we can find ceremonies like those in LDS temples being done historically around the world. But that does not mean any of them were from God. Mystery Babylon has spread around the world. The ceremonies being performed in LDS / Brighamite temples are of the occult, which is of Mystery Babylon, and not of God. We can see how the works of darkness spread all over.

    Helaman (LDS 6:28) (RLDS 2:154) … And it was that same being who led on the people who came from that tower into this land; who spread the works of darkness and abominations over all the face of the land, until he dragged the people down to an entire destruction, and to an everlasting hell.

    When an idea is drilled into your head over and over again, it can linger inside of you without you even knowing it, while affecting what you do and think. I have believed that Brigham Young was a tyrant and horn dog for a very long time, some things I bring out in King Brigham will show that. But for whatever reason the dichotomy between that and what the LDS / Brighamite church taught me about Joseph Smith trusting Brigham Young with LDS Temple ceremonies had not yet surfaced, probably becasue of the fond memories I had of my temple experiences. (Please keep in mind I love symbolism, I find it very meaningful, and I saw lots of it in the temple, and next to none at church.) If you ask me Joseph Smith was in the process of gathering evidence against Brigham Young to excommunicate him for his sins and crimes, which is why Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith’s murder, which is talked about in The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph & Hyrum: Part One along with “The Carthage Conspiracy” and Joseph Smith Was Murdered By Freemasons. (Knowing this I find verse Helaman (LDS 6:19) (RLDS 2:128) very telling, especially considering what is being described before and after it, not to mention Helaman (LDS 6:21) (RLDS 2:145).) When that was rooted out of me many other things started to make sense.

    Helaman (LDS 6:19) (RLDS 2:128) And it was they [those with secret signs and words] who did murder the chief judge Cezoram [Joseph and Hyrum Smith], and his son [successor, Samuel Smith], while in the judgment-seat; and behold, they were not found.

    If Helaman (LDS 6:22-27) (RLDS 2:146-152) does not sound like what happens in LDS Temples along with what members in politics and the law do to protecting the LDS / Brighamite church, and how and why many courts of love [of power] are conducted I don’t know what does. (see McKenna Denson a force for good for examples and Bishops are JUDGEs of Israel for explanation)

    Helaman (LDS 6:22-27) (RLDS 2:146-152)
    22 And it came to pass that they did have their SIGNS, yea, their SECRET SIGNS, and their SECRET WORDS; and this that they might DISTINGUISH a brother who had ENTERED into the COVENANT, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he SHOULD NOT BE INJURED BY HIS BROTHER [upholding their kingdom], nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this COVENANT. 23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit WHOREDOMS and all manner of wickedness, CONTRARY to the LAWS of their COUNTRY and also the LAWS of their GOD. 24 And whosoever of those who BELONGED to their band should REVEAL unto the WORLD of their WICKEDNESS and their ABOMINATIONS, should be TRIED, not according to the laws of their country, BUT ACCORDING TO THE LAWS OF THEIR WICKEDNESS, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen. 25 Now behold, it is these SECRET OATHS and COVENANTS which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto DESTRUCTION. 26 Now behold, those SECRET OATHS and COVENANTS did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit— 27 Yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known unto the world. And he did plot with Cain and his followers from that time forth.

    Not to mention that the temple ceremonies that the sons of Aaron performed in the tabernacle, which later was done in the temple, were sacred but not secret as they written in the first five books of the Bible which are also known as the Torah.

  7. Here is a search program I wrote if you want to use it.

  8. I believe this shows much evidence that the LDS / Brighamite church is in apostasy

  9. Adam-God theory is so against the scriptures including the BoM. I actually wonder how much BY read them if any.

    Alma 18:36 Now when Ammon had said these words, he began at the CREATION OF THE WORLD, and also the CREATION OF ADAM, and told him all the things concerning the fall of man, and rehearsed and laid before him the records and the holy scriptures of the people, which had been spoken by the prophets, even down to the time that their father, Lehi, left Jerusalem.

    Mormon 9:12 Behold, he [God] created Adam, and by Adam came the fall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man.

    Moroni 10:3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the CREATION OF ADAM even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

  10. Today I was blown away— I think my jaw dropped during the whole thing—yet for the first time in 35 years I felt free thinking I was the only member that didn’t feel comfortable about the endowment esp the penalties. I remember being shocked that this was the church but both grandpas were playing the parts. One was God and one Satan. Ironically my parents divorced. Almost comedic. Ok it was pretty funny. I’ve always known about Freemasons and for the first time I get it.—though at the end I wanted to throw up at the money I have given blindly.