Iron Rod 018 – The Holy Ghost
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This week’s topic has several interesting angles: are the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit the same thing or different?  Is the Holy Ghost a personage? What is the gift of the Holy Ghost and how does one receive it? Can we receive it today? Not only do we answer those questions, but there’s also a special musical number by Searcher.

D&C 130:22-23
Lectures on Faith 5:2, questions 13 and 14
D&C 20:41
D&C 33:15
2 Nephi 31:14
Alma 9:21
Alma 13:10-12
Acts 2:2-4
Acts 10:44-47
Acts 19:5-6
D&C 55:1
3 Nephi 19:11-14
Moroni 2:1-2
Hebrews 2:4
Helaman 5:43-50
3 Nephi 7:21-22
Moroni 6:9

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24 comments on “Iron Rod 018 – The Holy Ghost

  1. Josh Nelson Apr 9, 2019

    That guitar solo!!! Strong work brothers.

  2. Mr. Finch Apr 9, 2019

    I wanted to mention that in the Book of Revelation, the Holy Ghost is referenced in Verse 13:2 as the great authority. Of course the reference to the godhead in that verse is somewhat satirical but the description of the Godhead is correct. The verse reads “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion; and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”

    That is, the dragon (false god) gave him (the beast) his power (the function of the 1st member of the Godhead), and his seat (the function of the 2nd member of the Godhead), and great authority (the function of the 3rd member of the Godhead). As you can see, John is telling us that the dragon, although a false god, represents himself as the true power (God the Father), he also represents himself as holding the seat of salvation (The Christ), and he represents himself as the great authority (the Holy Ghost). Since the celestial kingdom is truly the great authority, then the third member of the Godhead represents that kingdom in the Godhead. Although he may be an individual, he is accountable to us with regard to the laws of that kingdom. Thus we have in our lives the Father that is the power of our creation in the kingdom, we also have the Christ that is the seat of our salvation in the kingdom, and the Holy Ghost that is the great authority of our participation in the kingdom; something like that. I did not say “into the kingdom” because the condition of The Fathers power in our lives, as well as the seat of the salvation of Christ in our lives, and the great authority of the Holy Ghost in our lives is an eternal condition, and not merely a condition for the entrance into the celestial kingdom.

  3. MegTab Apr 10, 2019

    What about Doctrine and Covenants 121:46?

    • Well that’s just downright embarrassing! I can’t speak for Searcher, but I had used companionship when searching and it didn’t match with companion, so I never made the connection. Even worse, it was already underlined in my paper scriptures!

    • Watcher Apr 10, 2019

      Good catch on finding that passage.

      I think the main point being made in the podcast is that there is no scriptural basis for the current teaching that little children and others receive the constant companionship of the holy ghost at the time of confirmation after baptism.

      The passage in section 121 seems to be referring to a blessing related to the doctrine of the priesthood being revealed and distilled upon someone after they have shown forth charity for their fellow man and virtue has garnished their thoughts, resulting in their confidence waxing strong in the presence of God. The passage seems more likely to be suggesting that a constant companionship of the Holy Ghost, follows calling and election and the second comforter, rather than water baptism.

      One could also argue that the ending passage of that section was directed specifically to Joseph Smith, the designated holder of the scepter of righteousness.

      Bottom-line, if that is the only passage that speaks of the possibility of the Holy Ghost as a constant companion, how did we get the current tradition of teaching that all baptized members are given the constant companionship following baptism when we all know that we actually only enjoy the intermittent companionship of the Holy Ghost at best.

    • Mr. Finch Apr 10, 2019

      The best that I can come up with is that the Holy Ghost is a connection to the Celestial Kingdom. Thus, the three members of the Godhead are: God the Father, Lord Jesus, and the Celestial Kingdom. Thus, the gift of the Holy Ghost is a gift connecting us to that kingdom. However, I do not know the particulars of it all. So it seems that the gift is not the promise that comes from the Savior alone.

      So there is a gift and there is a promise and each pertain to the kingdom. However, once the promise is obtained then the gift can not be denied.

      Additionally, I have often thought that the first presidency over this earth is Lord Jesus, Michael, and John. I may have already mentioned this but these three in addition to God the Father are the four beasts of Revelation Chapter 4.

  4. Jessi H Apr 10, 2019

    Great show, guys!
    Something I wanted to comment a few shows ago, but didn’t get to it, is a word link between the foundation era and our day. In section 123 v 7, Joseph writes from Liberty Jail “of that spirit which hath so strongly RIVETED the creeds of the fathers, who have inherited lies, upon the hearts of the children, and filled the world with confusion…”
    In 1996, M. Russell Ballard wrote/spoke,
    “Keep your eyes RIVETED on the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot. Let me tell you why. Every week that I am in town, I attend a meeting of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve on the fourth floor of the Salt Lake Temple. If you could see the process by which decision and direction comes from that meeting, you would have a deep sense of confidence and comfort that the will of the Lord is being taught by the leaders of the Church.
    So keep your eyes RIVETED on the leadership of the Church.”

    Anyway, I just thought that was an interesting connection.

    • Jessi:
      That is a RIVITING connection! We are so tied down by tradition that we fail to see ourselves in Scripture. We hear over and over and over and over again how we need to place our trust in men, instead of in the word of God.

      Great use of word searching technology to draw an interesting and significant parallel.
      Searcher

    • Mr. Finch Apr 12, 2019

      You are speaking to the choir. Recently I was visiting with a follower of Denver Snuffer and it seems that they (the followers of Suffer) have simply swapped out Nelson for Snuffer. Like; “Just trust in Snuffer because he will not lead you astray.” It seems that they are so needy of a leader that the Savior will not suffice. I am so grateful for this site so that I can learn for myself and follow no man but Lord Jesus.

  5. Thanks again guys. I have a couple questions for you.

    If we don’t have the Melchizedek priesthood today, sounds like no one can currently have the Gift of the Holy Ghost?

    Do you consider the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be the only organization today that has the Aaronic priesthood?

    Lastly, on the topic of the nature of God, with your take that God is a personage of spirit and that the King Follet sermon isn’t doctrinally correct, what are your thoughts for us after this life? If we don’t progress to become gods ourselves, what happens?

    Thanks!

    • I understand that this question is posed to Watcher, Searcher and MD. For what it is worth I will put in my 2 cents.

      I believe that Nephi echos God’s expectation for us when he encourages us to “feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things”. We also know that the Holy Ghost will tell us or show us all things. It is intriguing that this phrase is attributed to both… I share Searchers sentiment when he said that he knows of no better way to become acquainted with the Spirit than to dive into the scriptures.

      Keyword search the Holy Ghost. Keyword search the priesthood. Read and keyword search the Lectures on Faith (may I suggest lecture 5 on the Godhead). Ours is the opportunity to get out of our own way, to dive in and to let God impart his wisdom.

    • Q gives some good advice. We can quote scriptures that paint a different picture than what the modern Church teaches, but each person needs to search themselves and ask God personally for an answer. It doesn’t really matter if I believe something is true or not.

      On the King Follet sermon, the first thing to note is that it isn’t in the scriptures. We have a non-scriptural source that contradicts the scriptures – yet we have been taught to give it supremacy over the word of God. I encourage you to search the scriptures to see what they say happens after this life. You’ll find ideas like “joint heirs with Christ” and “when he comes, we shall be like him” and “they shall dwell in the presence of God forever”.

      • Well I appreciate the response. I hope my inquiry wasn’t interpreted as attacking. It’s certainly not, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from regarding some ideas that are new to me.

  6. Recently came across this podcast, thanks for it, I have enjoyed most of what I hear you guys sharing.

    I wish I would have come across it a little sooner as the tid bit about the scribes not agreeing about the Holy Ghost in D&C 130 would have been useful for my latest post.

    This is my Shavuot/Pentecost post. I primarily talk about the HOLY SPIRIT/HOLY GHOST. I also bring up the temple and the Lectures on Faith. The post ends with an index of sixteen concepts that are used with both phrases of HOLY SPIRIT and HOLY GHOST.
    https://seekingyhwh.com/2019/06/09/the-holy-spirit-and-the-holy-ghost-are-the-same/

    I bring up some other things you guys talk about also like baptism is done after we make a covenant, from Mosiah 18.

    At the end of the post I do have an index of terms that are used for Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost, but I want to make one for all the scriptures, but that would be a lot of work.

    Thanks again.

    • I like your scriptural analysis of Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit. You’ve produced quite an exhaustive list of scriptures that are a valuable resource. Thanks for sharing!

    • I don’t think anything will ever top Searcher’s guitar solo!

  7. Regarding Acts 10:44-47 I’d have to do some thinking on it, as I’m not sure what is going on. In a post I wrote a while back ago, Baptisms Order, https://seekingyhwh.com/2016/10/07/baptisms-order/ , I bring out BoM verses that state the order does matter, meaning baptism of water and baptism of fire and holy ghost. BoM uses words like first and then. I even bring out those who received the baptism of fire in Helaman 5 were DISSENTERS meaning they were part of the church before and thus were baptized.

    • Great insight about “dissenters”. I hadn’t made that connection, but it’s so obvious once you point it out. Especially Helaman 5:35. Duh!

      I suspect Acts 10 is the exception that proves the rule. Peter had no precedent to rely on. Even though he had received the vision, and seen the faith of Cornelius, it wasn’t until he saw the Holy Ghost fall on them that he knew God truly approved of baptizing Gentiles into the house of faith…because God had demonstrated his approval with the same manifestation that Peter himself had received at Pentecost. Once Peter tells the Church that Gentiles can be baptized, we see no other instance of someone receiving the Holy Ghost prior to baptism by water.

    • There are things we all miss, and hopefully we help expound scriptures to bring each other to truth.

      It is the Bible and the Book of Mormon that shall confound false doctrines, not sayings of modern people.

      2 Nephi (LDS 3:12) (RLDS 2:19-23) Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

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